Have you been experiencing any stress in any of your relationships?
Maybe you're wondering if that stress is impacting your hormones.
Spoiler alert, yes. In this episode, we will cover how stress impacts your relationships
and your hormones, how attachment theory can significantly improve your life,
and how to start making changes that will impact your relationship stress.
What's up, sisters? sisters. Welcome to the Period Whisperer podcast.
I'm Bria. I'm your host. If you're new, I'm so happy you are here.
I'm your perimetopause and menopause sister, your holistic trainer,
hormone specialist, translator of your female body.
I'm a recovering people pleaser and hustle addict turned body whisperer and hormone decoder.
And I am here to help you de-stress your body, decode what it is saying,
become the CEO of it, and own your own health, energy, and weight loss us again.
This show is for you, the overwhelmed, overworked, underappreciated step woman
who dreams of a body they feel strong, energetic, and sane in.
The woman who knows that she shouldn't just wave the white aging flag and believes
in a body and life of peace, love, and purpose, but you don't just know how to get there yet.
So if you are stuck in your body, your energy, your life, you are in in the right spot.
Let's lean in and learn what our bodies are saying to us.
Hey there, sister. Welcome to another episode of the Period Whisperer podcast.
And do I ever have a treat for you? If you are here, I'm going to guess that
you're in my age box of 35 to 55.
And although I don't know everything about you, I imagine you're handling a
lot in your life right now and that your hormones aren't helping or what you're
handling is not helping your hormones. It's kind of a chicken or the egg situation.
Things like your children, your career, your finances, and most importantly today,
your relationship that you have or that you want can all be big players in the
impact of your hormones and your health during this transitional phase of reverse
puberty, which is why I know you're going to love this episode.
I've invited my friend, Dr. Morgan Anderson, to join me today.
Dr. Morgan is a clinical psychologist and relationship coach,
host of the Let's Get Vulnerable podcast, which is a top 0.5% podcast in the
world, and creator of the ESL Relationship Method.
She helps women break the toxic dating cycle, raise their self-worth,
and have the healthy relationship they've always wanted.
So whether you are in a relationship and could use some direction to make it
even more fulfilling, or you are looking for a relationship,
you're going to love this episode.
We're going to cover a topic I am very interested in, attachment styles.
So let's get to the good part. Welcome, Dr. Morgan. I'm so happy to be chatting with you today.
Thank you so much for having me. It was quite the intro. I need you as my hype
girl. Thank you. I'm a fan.
I'm a fan girl and I'm bringing it. I'm excited to be here.
And I love how you talked about how our
health really does also impact our relationships and vice versa, right?
So it makes sense that we'd look at all the different areas of life.
Yeah, for sure. I mean, I know that if I'm not feeling really great in my body,
Like it's going to impact my patience level,
my capacity for like listening and understanding and not just losing my shit
and my libido for sure, which all play a big role.
Yes, absolutely. So how did you, tell us a little bit about you first,
by the way, I love your podcast.
Everyone should go out and check out the Let's Get Vulnerable podcast. It's amazing.
But how did you get interested in or even being into being a relationship coach
or focusing your psychology this way?
Yeah. So I'm always, do I give the long version?
I'm still trying to figure out how I tell this story exactly.
So I should have a better elevator pitch. Yeah, I should know by now.
But I think it's important to just acknowledge I did experience childhood trauma.
I actually lost my mom at age age six.
And that started a real attachment style journey for me of just from a young
age of developing disorganized attachment, which we'll talk about.
And I went on and I watched my dad actually go through some really terrible relationships.
He got married, got divorced, got married, got divorced.
So I saw a lot of what not to do while also experiencing experiencing a lot
of change and chaos in my own life as a young kid, trying to navigate the world.
And my self-worth was rock bottom from a young age.
And then guess what? I started dating in my teens and in my 20s,
and it showed up big time.
I went through toxic relationship after toxic relationship.
And then I was always fascinated with relationships because I saw how much pain they cause.
And I knew like, okay, there has to be a way to have healthy relationships.
I really want to understand this.
So it was funny. I was going through all these experiences while throwing myself
into relationship research.
But then it wasn't until I had my rock bottom moment where I found myself dating
a narcissist. I was in my second year of my doctoral program.
I'm studying what narcissism is. And then here I am, I'm dating a narcissist
who, of course, love bombed me, did all the right things.
We had this fairytale romance for the first six months of our relationship.
And then a year and a half in, it ended horribly.
And it was the first time in my life I'd ever involved police.
There was a a police report.
And I'm like filling out this police report. I'm in the lobby of my apartment
building. There's people watching.
And it was just in that moment of, this is not me. I don't even recognize myself. Who am I?
And it was that fork in the road. And I said, I have to figure out how to have
a healthy relationship.
And that's when I threw myself into researching attachment attachment theory, and also my own healing.
And it really would take me like a decade to become securely attached.
But that was the start of it all.
And then in my clinical practice, I loved private practice, one-on-one working
with clients, but I just knew more people need the information that I have.
More people need to know about attachment theory.
So let me launch launch this brand and maybe help a few people.
And now we've helped over 500 women in about three years. Amazing.
So there's definitely a need for it. Just like I went through,
there's so many people that they really need to be able to become securely attached
and let go of their childhood.
Their past stuff. It is a real rock bottom moment or interesting moment when
you look at yourself and you're like, this is not, like, who am I? I'm not this person.
I don't recognize myself. Yes.
And I think it comes in many different areas. I think it often comes more and
more for women in midlife.
Like, what do you notice about relationships for women in midlife around this stuff?
Oh, absolutely. Yeah. That's the time in life where you're looking in the mirror
and you're really honest with yourself and going, wow, I don't have the kind
of relationship that I want.
Either I went through a divorce, there was a relationship that maybe I thought
was going to work out that didn't work out, or wow, here I am.
I've devoted so much time to my career.
This is a common one. I've grown so much in my career. I've put all my energy
into my career. It was really safe for me.
And I've never learned how to be vulnerable or how to show up in a healthy relationship
and communicate in a healthy way. I've just never learned it.
So here I am alone at 45, 55, right?
So I do think midlife really is this wake-up call of.
Wow, do I want to spend the rest of my life alone, which isn't bad,
right? We all know So you can.
Or is there that little part of you that really does want partnership and healthy
partnership where you could grow together and support one another and have that closeness?
And I think in midlife, a lot of people realize like, oh, I actually do want partnership.
I've ignored it. I've focused on other parts of my life. But.
Actually do want a partner. Or maybe, and that's, that's fascinating,
that vulnerability piece, which obviously plays a huge role.
It's probably why your podcast is called that, but with when it,
so you, that example you gave around, you know, a woman who's maybe thrown herself
into work, cause that's a safe place.
Do you also see that in women who maybe chose a relationship that where they
didn't have to be vulnerable because that kept them, you know,
in a safe place as well? Absolutely. Yeah.
Yeah. Based on our relationship blueprints and our attachment styles,
we can actually choose partners who are emotionally available to the degree
that we're comfortable with. with.
So isn't that wild? That just made a whole lot of sense.
Because what's interesting is like if I'm not emotionally available with myself
and I haven't really healed or looked at my trauma or I'm not even connected
to my inner emotional experience, if that's where I'm at,
I'm not going to go pick an emotionally available partner.
That would just feel way too scary for me. Yeah, I'm sure.
I'm sure that makes when you start to think about it. And I think,
you know, one thing I just want to insert here around that midlife piece that's so fascinating.
I think people always talk about like midlife crises and all these things.
But for women in this age box, like this hormonal shift fundamentally allows
us to no longer be subconsciously driven to reproduce. reduced.
So now we actually have more awareness, more clarity, more bandwidth to deal
with the stuff that's always been there.
And it's kind of starting to bug us now at this phase.
So I think what you're talking about, this attachment style,
I like to kind of spell that out for people because it sounds like such a powerful
thing. What is attachment?
Is it called relationship attachment style theory?
Just attachment theory. Attachment theory. Okay. Attachment theory.
So what is attachment theory for those who are listening that don't know?
Yes. Attachment theory started in the 1950s with John Bowlby and Mary Ainsworth,
and they were actually studying the parent-child relationships,
specifically mother and child.
But then with more research, we saw how it could really be applied to adult
romantic relationships.
So now, I mean, even in the last 20 years, there's so much more research that
looks at attachment styles in the context of romantic relationships.
Essentially, we know with attachment theory that your early relationship experiences
with a caregiver really impact your adult romantic relationships.
And we also know that your early romantic experiences impact your your adult
romantic relationships.
So your learned ways of being, your learned ways of asking for reassurance,
of getting your needs met, all of that will impact you for the rest of your
life and relationships.
That's amazing. And I know, obviously, I'm a big fan of your podcast,
so I've listened to it. I've started to research into this, so I understand a little bit.
But can you give an example, or
maybe it's best to just explain what the different attachment styles are?
So that we can understand a broader picture. Absolutely.
And what I like people to know is that these are all on a spectrum and you may
find yourself identifying with more than one.
I kind of think of it as your tool belt in relationships.
And some of us are always going to pull out the hammer. That's our one tool.
Maybe that's avoidant attachment, for example. But just think of this as like,
I'm not going to just put myself into one box.
You may identify with various attachment styles.
The first one is anxious attachment. And at the core with anxious attachment,
I am devaluing myself and overvaluing my partner and really struggling with fear of abandonment.
So waiting for that other shoe to drop, I know I'm going to be abandoned.
When is it going to happen?
And then another characteristic that's so important with with anxious attachment
is not being able to internalize reassurance.
So constant reassurance seeking. It's like your reassurance bucket has holes in it.
So your partner could tell you, I love you. You're amazing. You're great.
But you can't internalize it and you don't feel safe in the relationship.
That's crazy and makes a lot of sense when you think about it.
And these are the people where early on in childhood,
they may have experienced unpredictable relationships with caregivers or neglect
or actual abandonment. They might have lost a parent.
And I think it's just really important to realize that these attachment styles are not bad.
These developed out of survival.
So your brain learned to start thinking that way and acting that way and showing
up with these behaviors to try to make sure that you could have a connection
with your caregiver because that's how we survive.
So we never want to judge ourselves. If you're identifying with this,
it's like, oh, wow, that's what my brain did to survive at that time.
And maybe it's not helpful to me now as an adult.
I love that you said that because I do think we can all shame spiral pretty
quickly when we're like, oh my gosh, that's me.
I'm terrible. What am I going to do?
Right? Yeah. Ageless attachment, you're the one that's like sending the 17 text
messages or really like reaching out constantly and never feeling safe in the relationship.
It's easy to be like, oh, what's wrong with me?
But I really want people to say, hey, that was my brain being really creative
growing up on what I needed in order to feel connected.
And I think there's a better way to do that now. So with that,
yeah, we can talk about avoidant attachment.
So this is kind of the opposite of anxious.
And avoidant attachment is where you're actually devaluing your partner, overvaluing yourself.
So sometimes these folks get confused with narcissists, but it's actually very different.
With avoidant attachment, you have real fear of intimacy and a lot of hyper-independence.
So you really learn to be hyper-independent. And the idea of getting close with
someone feels very scary.
Having to depend on someone else is just almost inaccessible.
And there can be a real disconnection from your emotional experience,
which also makes being present for others really challenging, right?
If I'm not connected to my own emotions, how can I be present for others?
That's crazy. And what are some things, asking for a friend,
what are some things that may have happened to someone in their childhood that
might, or in initial relationships that might foster that?
Avoidant attachment is really interesting. So it could be neglect.
It could be that, you know, this is the kid that they wanted reassurance and
it simply wasn't available.
So they just had to learn, oh, wow, I can't depend on others.
I can only depend on myself. self.
Or, gosh, if I cry, it does no good. So why don't I just not cry and just disconnect from my emotions?
So there's some of that neglect, the secure object not being present has an impact.
And then it could also be, and this one's interesting, where you had someone
who was like a helicopter parent who was way too involved, who really kind of suffocated you. you.
And then it made you feel like, oh, relationships, closeness,
not for me because I'm being suffocated.
So there's a number of experiences that lead to avoidant attachment.
Wow. Okay. So we have anxious attachment and avoidant attachment.
Are there others? Yeah. The final insecure style is disorganized,
also known as fearful avoidant.
Disorganized is is about 5% of the population. And this is highly correlated with childhood trauma.
This is where you are pendulum swinging between anxious and avoidant.
So that was my experience for a really long time. And I can tell you it's exhausting.
So this is where you're really struggling with intimacy, but also afraid you're going to be abandoned.
And this looks like someone taking two steps forward in a relationship and two
steps back, really confusing relationship behavior,
introducing you to their parents and they're not calling you for three weeks,
like things like that, where you get close and then they run away.
Wow. That's so interesting. And that really does start to sum up a lot of past
relations about it, right?
Lots of light bulbs when you hear this attachment styles.
Yeah. What are the secure? So there's insecure attachment styles.
We have the three. And then what are there multiple secure attachment styles
or just one? Just one, which makes it less confusing.
So that's good. So this is where we all want to be is secure attachment.
I love secure attachment. I love
talking about it. This is where I value myself and I value my partner.
I know that I can be independent and I also really value my relationships and I can ask for help.
I can communicate well. I can set boundaries.
I can can ask for my needs to be met. I'm also highly attuned to my partner,
right? I'm attuned to myself and I'm attuned to my partner.
Relationships feel good. Relationships are easy. Relationships get better with time.
If a relationship ends, yes, I can feel pain. I can grieve it,
but it's not the end of the world.
This is just where we all want to be.
Right. Right. It's a good, a solid place. So, so if someone's listening and
they, you know, are maybe starting to self-identify with some of these pieces,
like how does knowing your attachment style help?
It helps so much. It really does. Oh my gosh.
When you know your attachment style, you can then be that gentle observer and
notice your reactions and say,
oh wow, there's my anxious attachment brain.
Right? First part of growth, that awareness piece. Yeah. Or there's my avoidant attachment style.
This is what I teach people to do is really get very aware of when they're acting
out of an insecure attachment style, and then how to intentionally align with
your securely attached self in the moment and show up differently.
And that is such a game changer in your relationships.
Is it hard work? Yes, it is.
I started to think about it. I was like, oh.
It's especially hard at the beginning, the things that I take people through
in the work, because you do have to look at your past.
We know this about humans. In order to really let something go,
we have to understand it. It's just how we work.
So if we're going to let go of your insecure patterns, your insecure attachment
style, we have to look at your trauma. We have to look at what's happened to you.
And most people avoid that work for their entire lives.
And then that's why they come to me because I can help them do it in a way that
isn't overwhelming and that's safe where they have support.
Is it helpful to know, you know, your attachment?
Like, so for the women who are in a relationship and want to improve that relationship,
you know, obviously we know that self-work, like taking care of yourself is
going to be the first step to whatever you want in life, I think.
But is it helpful to know your partner's attachment style as well?
Absolutely. It absolutely is. And I'm really cautious on this because I never
want you to feel like you're your partner's therapist or you're their coach.
So it's this idea of having them come alongside you, have them learn about it for themselves.
You never want to be like, hey, take this quiz and then I'm going to analyze
you. That is just the wrong energy for a relationship. Okay.
This is your attachment style and here's how you need to deal with it.
Yeah. We don't want that. We want to invite them. We want to model like,
hey, I'm learning to become securely attached.
I'm so curious. What do you know about attachment theory?
Like maybe you want to check this out. So yes, it's very helpful.
And you would want them to take ownership of their understanding. Their own piece.
You said earlier, you said something earlier that I just wanted to circle back
to where there's often the avoidant attachment style can get confused with being a narcissist.
Narcissist what is the difference yes so with avoidant attachment the devaluing and distancing,
it is because of fear of intimacy so for example if I'm making a ton of jokes
or I'm saying you know like you know those sarcastic people where it's like
you can never really feel close to them they're just always making fun of you
yeah if I have avoidant attachment that's because I'm I'm actually just scared
of being really close and intimate. Okay.
If a narcissist is using devaluing or...
You know, I would say like a distancing strategy, like pulling away and then
coming back again, if that's coming from a narcissist, the motive is really different.
It's not about fear of intimacy.
It is about wanting to control and have power in the relationship.
Interesting. Okay. Okay. That makes a lot of sense.
So once we know, you know, so for everybody listening,
like once we know that, you know, once we have an idea of our attachment style
and we want to start working on it, like you said, obviously that awareness
is kind of that first thing.
Are there any other specific steps that someone can do, you know,
to, yeah, to start to improve this piece in themselves, to start to to heal this part?
It's a great question. I do have a gift for your audience.
So I want to plug this here because this would definitely be a great next step.
It's a free attachment style guide. And this is actually a guided workbook with
journal prompts that'll really help you get some awareness around your attachment
style and how to move towards secure.
So you just go to drmorgancoaching.com forward slash free guide.
And I'll give you that link to the link for the the show notes down below. Yeah.
Cause that's really, I wish I could say, oh, it's this easy.
You know, you just want to manifest.
Yeah. Just write it, just write it on your mirror of you're securely attached
and then you will be like, I wish it was that easy, but it's not like there is a lot of awareness.
So, so yeah, one of the first things I would encourage you to do is just Just
be really honest about the patterns in your relationships.
Once you're understanding your attachment style, look at your past relationships
and say, Oh, what was the attachment dynamic here?
Why was this so painful? We want to understand what has happened to you so far.
Okay, I love that. And let's so if we're starting to do some of this self work,
and maybe you have like a pretty comfortable communication with your partner if you do have a partner.
So for those in the relationship, is there is there a safe way to like say to
your partner like, hey, like, I'm interested in this?
Would you want to take this quiz with me? Would you want to do this with you
know, would you want to learn about this?
Like, do you have language around that? Oh, totally. Totally.
And I do help people who are in relationships all the time.
And it usually ends up that their partner is very curious and they just kind
of naturally want to be involved.
But language for that would be like, hey, I really care about you.
I know that I'm working working on myself right now. I'm learning all about my attachment style.
Our relationship growing is such a priority to me.
And I wonder if you'd be open to learning about this as well.
Do you want to learn about attachment theories? Something like that.
But the positioning is so important here, right? It's not like,
I think our dynamics suck.
I think you need to work on things. It's like, hey, I care about us.
I value our relationship growing.
This is something I'm doing. I wonder if you want to join me in it.
An invitation. Yeah. An invitation. Oh, I love that. I think that's really, really powerful.
Do you find in relationships or when you're looking for a relationship,
is it common that two people have the same insecure attachment? Yeah.
Are there commonalities that we see in relationships that you're drawn to?
Yes, you will love this. So it's so wild.
So the anxiously attached person is so attracted to the avoidantly attached
person, which is super fun for them, right?
If you took an anxiously attached person in a room with 100 people,
people, and there was 99 securely attached people, and just one avoidantly attached person,
they would find that avoidantly attached person. It is like a magnet.
Why? Is that because of the reason? Because I think you were saying that's sort
of the value that our brain perceives.
I don't know if you said this on the show. I was listening to already of yours, but you go.
It's because it fits the blueprint for what they know to be true about about love.
So if I'm anxiously attached, I feel that love's really not available to me.
I have to work really hard. People are going to abandon me. People are going to pull away.
And guess what? That's what the avoidantly attached person does. That's how they show up.
So I'm attracted to whatever matches my brain's blueprint for love. Yeah.
And with avoidant attachment, you might go, oh, people are so needy.
People just want want so much of my time. They want so much of me. Guess what?
Anxiously attached folks will be that way. So it fits your blueprint.
It's like you, it is like you manifested that because you just already,
so that's what you look for. It's even, it's crazy. It's biological.
I know you'd love this. It's like, there's, there's the ways that our biology
interacts in this too. And it just, it is a magnet.
It's almost like you can imagine like that you're just naturally more drawn
to it because it seems like a more possible thing if you believe that that is what love is.
Like you're missing the cues from secured, attached people that they might even
be interested because it just doesn't look familiar.
Yeah, you're not attracted to them. You're not attracted to them.
If I'm anxiously attached and I have someone who's securely attached and let's
say they want to put in effort, they want to really get to know me,
they want to bring me flowers, you know.
Yeah. And I'm like, oh, I'm just not attracted to this person.
Something's off. They're weird. The vibe is off.
It's like, no, the vibe is not off.
You're just not attracted to emotionally available people.
Oh my gosh. This makes so much sense for like all the television shows we watched our entire lives.
Like when I think of A Text from the City or Beverly Hills for the stuff that I grew up watching.
It's like, oh, now you get it. Yeah.
And this is why when I became securely attached to myself, and I've seen this
happen for hundreds of clients, it's kind of like, where did all these amazing
people come from? Did all of these partners just fall from the sky?
Like, where have they been all my life? But I just wasn't, I wasn't attracted to it.
Before. It's like, all of a sudden you can see it, like the fog has cleared
and now you're more aware.
It's so fascinating, Dr. Morgan. It's almost like we were kind of joking about
like, we wish you could manifest things in, but like ultimately that is in the
end when it seems like you do logically.
It's like you do the work to actually clear the past. You're like,
oh, look what's available to me now.
Yeah, there really is. And yeah, there is a rewiring of of your brain where
you are learning to have a healthy view of yourself and a healthy view of relationships
and learning how to show up securely attached and know that you're worthy of that.
And there's also this biological component of learning how to regulate your
nervous system and show up in a securely attached way.
So you are showing up chemically differently,
differently but it certainly comes back to that truth of
the universe does not respond to what you want
it responds to who you are being oh that
hit home holy that's crazy say that one more time please yes the universe does
not respond to what you want it responds to who you are being oh my gosh that
would explains i think and i believe that wholeheartedly it explains why things
can can seem so much easier for some people than other people.
Because if you're just being that, whether it's health goals or whether it's
relationship goals, if you're already existing as that, then it just responds accordingly.
Yeah. Wow. And for anyone who's struggled in relationships, I think this stat
will really surprise you, but 50% of people actually grow up with secure attachment.
50%. That seems like a lot. I know. That was shocking to me.
Like, like, really? How do the rest of us get so messed up?
That's kind of rolled into the relationships. Yeah.
We're breaking the cycles of the generational trauma.
That's what the rest of us get to do. And I do think what's so cool about becoming
securely attached after having an insecure attachment style,
you have so much appreciation for a healthy relationship and for being in that
securely attached place.
That's where I'm at. I'm like, I know what it feels like to have a chaotic,
toxic, terrible relationship dynamic. I remember that.
So I just have so much gratitude for being in this new place.
So that's one of the benefits. Yeah, I'm sure.
And maybe that's a good place to kind of, you know, wrap up there.
But how do you know if you're in a securely attached relationship?
So that's a great question. I think a lot of it is felt.
I want to make sure that people know that it's not perfect.
Perfect is not securely attached. I think sometimes we fantasize that that's
what it is, but that's not what it is.
In a securely attached relationship, you feel emotionally safe,
you feel valued, you feel loved, you feel that you're able to express your needs
and wants and preferences.
And a big one, here's a big sign, is when you can navigate conflict and you
can do it in a healthy way and you feel like you're growing as a couple on the
other side of it. The big sign.
That's so good. I love that. Thank you. What an amazing place.
And maybe we should wrap up there. I think that's such a powerful way is when
you can be exactly who you feel like you are and when you can bring up hard
conversations and when you can be there for the person.
And as you move through that conflict, it feels like you're actually growing closer.
Exactly. Yes. I'm so interested in continuing to learn more about this.
I'm really grateful that I know I can like deep dive into your programs and
your Instagram and your podcast.
But how do, for anyone listening, if they want to learn more more about this
stuff, which I'm sure they will, because it's so fascinating.
And you, you explain it so well, Dr.
Morgan, it's like, I don't know, you also have a very lovely, like therapist voice.
It really draws me in. I'm like, no, I just want to open up and tell you everything.
Oh my gosh. Has anyone ever told you that before? Oh yes. I do get that a lot. Actually.
It's just soothing. Maybe that's what it is. It's soothing, gentle and nonjudgmental. It's.
Yeah. So how is it best? I love we're going to pop your free gift.
So thank you so much that we'll make sure to put that in the show notes.
But how does everybody find more about you?
Yeah. So you were so kind in mentioning this a few times already,
but the Let's Get Vulnerable podcast, two episodes a week.
And that is over 400 episodes of attachment theory and relationship wisdom.
So there's a lot there for people to dive into.
And then Instagram, that's kind of where I am the most and it's drmorgancoaching,
drmorgancoaching on Instagram.
And there's at least a post a day that's giving you educational content and
things you can do to really improve your relationships right away.
Amazing. Thank you so much. This has been so, so interesting,
so educational and just, you know, such a joy to have you on here.
I know that a lot of people are going to learn a lot of it. So thank you so
much, Morgan. Have a wonderful, wonderful day.
Thank you for having me. Thank you. And sisters, go out and be more in your
life by deepening your relationship and not just less on a scale.
We'll catch you next time.
Thank you so much for joining me on the Period Whisperer podcast.
I want to encourage you to reach out to me directly and message me if there
are topics or things you're struggling with so we can address those right where you are at.
And of course, if you loved this episode, If you learned something,
make sure to share it with your friends and please rate and review it wherever you get your podcasts.
